Wednesday, June 24, 2009

Score it!.. Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez II

Earlier this month, The Boxing Bulletin's Score It! feature went back to May 8, 2004 for the first of the two dramatic battles between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez. For this edition, we're going to take a look at last year's bloody and equally contentious rematch.

The lightning fast Filipino southpaw came away from the Mandalay Bay that night with the win, but many fans felt the Mexican maestro deserved the verdict, leaving supporters of both warriors hotly debating the rightful winner.

Did the judges have it right? Let's take a look at our scorecards...

March 15, 2008 - Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez II



The Boxing Bulletin judges for this one are:

Lee Payton, Michael Nelson, Jeff Pryor, John Vaci and Andrew Fruman.
"This is much more of a chess match
than what took place in the first round
of May 8, 2004." - Jim Lampley

10-9 Pacquiao

“Pacquiao landed about half a dozen right jabs and light right hooks, mixed in with a few body shots, while Marquez didn't land much of anything except a big straight right. Marquez' shot was by far the hardest punch of the round, and made it razor close on my card.” – Michael Nelson

“Very close round. Pac was the busier of the two, and landed more, but the best punch of the round was a hard straight right hand by Marquez with just over a minute to go. Not enough to turn the tables however.” – Andrew Fruman

10-9 Marquez

“In a mostly quiet opening 3 minutes, Marquez landed the most significant punch of the round with an eye catching straight right hand that snapped Paquiao’s head back.” – John Vaci

10-10 Even

"JMM landed the best punch of the round, but was outworked, so I made it even. It really was round 13 in many ways. I scored the 12th round of their first fight even and I am going to do the same here. The respect they have for each other is obvious." - Lee Payton

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Pacquiao, Duane Ford 10-9 Pacquiao, Jerry Roth 10-9 Pacquiao

10-9 Marquez

“Tit for tat until the beautiful combination that rocked Pacquiao in the final seconds. Marquez is starting to time his counters well in this round, particularly whenever Pac reaches for his body. He's also landing a sweeping left hook behind Pac's guard.” – Michael Nelson

“Through minute one, each man has landed a few solid body blows. Pac lands a punch that nails Marquez's cheek, Marquez lands a right that twists Manny's head. With two minutes to go they fence with multiple swings none of which land. JMM lands another sweeping right that rakes Pac's head around. Then they take turns driving one another back. Manny is more effective, causing Juan's knees to buckle for just an instant. Marquez is unfazed and continues countering effectively until the end of the round. A right hook-left hook combo nearly decapitates Manny and causes him to stumble for a moment. Ding! The Bell saves him. Not surprisingly, Manny grins in the corner.” - Jeff Pryor

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Marquez, Duane Ford 10-9 Marquez, Jerry Roth 10-9 Marquez

"Marquez almost went down a second
time and and he almost went to the wrong
corner as well!" - Jim Lampley

10-8 Pacquiao

“A minute in and another sweet straight right lands right in the mush for JMM. It appears he's successfully lulled Pacquiao into a chess match, only to get suckered into a battle of exchanges near the end of the round and pays a huge price as a perfect short left hand finds his chin and deposits him on his trunks. It was a devastating punch, but he somehow gets up at 3 or 4. His first instinct is to fight back as hard as he can (Ya Gotta Love it!) and they trade wildly for the last 5 seconds and Pac lands a right hook to the temple that has Marquez dazed and staggering around in a fog after the bell." - Lee Payton

"Late in the round, Manny catches Marquez flat footed with a straight shot. Marquez tries to counter, but he's off balance from the blow. He might be more hurt by that then he lets on. Moments later they flurry along the ropes and Pacquiao clips Juan with a cross to the body, followed by a short left hook that sends Dynamita flailing down to the mat. Marquez is stung, he gets up and unloads both barrels in an effort to survive as the two of them engage in a whirlwind. Marquez catches Pac with three brutal straight salvos, but the Filipino keeps swinging, buckling Marquez's knees again. The round ends and Marquez is still standing, trying to catch his breath, trailing after Manny in a daze. The ref pulls him around, and he plods towards his own corner.” - Jeff Pryor

“Marquez landed a hard right hand in the first minute, which was the only real punch of note until Pac started to find the range with his left hand. He landed a couple good ones in the last minute, before finding the mark with a huge counter left that put Marquez flat on his back. Marquez tried to rally, but was almost put down for a second time as the round ended.” - Andrew Fruman

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-8 Pacquiao, Duane Ford 10-8 Pacquiao, Jerry Roth 10-8 Pacquiao

10-9 Pacquiao

“Pac comes out to test his man and Marquez lets him know it is gonna be another long night. Every time Manny lands something, Marquez tries to come right back. What a chin! He's taking some bombs in this round and is standing up to them quite well. At :53 Manny threw something similar to the shot that nearly beheaded Hatton and JMM took it. Things calm down a little and Marquez whips out a lead left hook that Pac seems to enjoy. Pretty awesome round that belonged to the Pac-Man.” – Lee Payton

“The first two minutes were all Pacquiao, as he smacked Marquez upside the head with the straight left. Marquez rallied a bit the last minute of the round, but not anywhere near enough to win it.” – John Vaci

10-9 Marquez

“The first minute is solid action. Manny steals a page from Juan and sweeps a left that just misses, the clean-up right bangs off Marquez's face. Marquez asserts himself and drives Pacquiao to the ropes, peppering him with blows. Manny nods his head. The second minute ticks by with minor skirmishes, then they explode again, each landing big shots, generally ramrod rights and lefts. Pacquiao smacks Marquez with a left hook upside the head. Marquez takes it. A moment later, Marquez cracks Pacquiao with a sweeping left hook flush to the cheek. Paquiao takes it. Nods. The rounds a dead heat. Marquez hears the sticks, and darts forward flinging a couple hard shots, just nudging things his way.” – Jeff Pryor

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Pacquiao, Duane Ford 10-9 Pacquiao, Jerry Roth 10-9 Pacquiao

Totals after 4 rounds

Tom Miller 39-36 Pacquiao, Duane Ford 39-36 Pacquiao, Jerry Roth 39-36 Pacquiao

"There's the right hand again. That's
the scoring weapon for Juan Manuel
Marquez. He has managed to keep it a
boxing match in this round." - Jim Lampley

10-9 Marquez

“Little to choose between the two for the first 1:30 and then JMM gets home with a straight right, followed by a short combination that puts Manny on the defensive. A little right counters Pacquiao's long left attempt. Marquez has cut Pacquiao's activity down in a big way by circling to his own left and staying set offensively. A cobra-like right with :20 to go seals the round for Marquez.” – Lee Payton

“Marquez landed 3-4 good left hooks to the body, got his jab working, and nailed Pacquiao with a few hard right hands to clearly take the round.” – Michael Nelson

"These guys are the best of the best; when they land, it tends to be flush. Marquez is showing a little more tenacity right now, and towards the end he presses forward unleashing a flurry of punches. Again, just putting out a little more and nipping the round.” Jeff Pryor

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Marquez, Duane Ford 10-9 Marquez, Jerry Roth 10-9 Marquez



"Alright, I want you to get busy out there. When you're first, you control him. Let's
be first out there with that jab. Control
him with that jab." - Freddie Roach

10-9 Marquez

“Two perfectly set up counter rights take the first minute for JMM, who continues to circle intelligently. Pac is frustrated and just tries to explode but is tagged with a right hand to end an exchange. Beautiful left uppercit-straight right comination for JMM who is very comfortable. He's totally messed up Pac's rhythm thus far. Another laser right to the side of the head to punctuate a perfect round for Marquez. He landed all of the clean punches.” – Lee Payton

“What control... Marquez starts the motion for a straight right, hesitates just an instant until things line up and then flings it out, smacking flat into Manny's face. Again, things have slowed a little. Marquez lands a right counter over the top clean. Manny catches Marquez standing straight and clips him. Pacquiao hooks inside; left, right to good effect. Follows with a hard straight. Marquez makes Pacquiao's whole body flail sideways with a right hook. They trade brutally, on even terms, then Marquez shoots a couple inside, scores and pistons quickly back out to distance and safety. Marquez catches Manny standing straight and clips him. Once again the sticks clap, and Marquez puts together a couple impressive punches. While both men do tremendous work, Marquez out slicks him when necessary, out punches him when all else fails.” – Jeff Pryor

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Pacquiao, Duane Ford 10-9 Pacquiao, Jerry Roth 10-9 Marquez

"Marquez is going to have to fight him. You can't outbox this guy. You've got to fight him." - Emanuel Steward

10-9 Pacquiao

"The exchanges were pretty even, but I gave Pacquiao the edge because I thought he landed a couple really hard, clean punches while forcing the action.” – Lee Payton

“I'm tempted to call this an even round. There were frenzied exchanges after the headbutt that seemed to favor Pacquiao, but neither man landed much. I give a slight edge to Pacquiao for two left hands near the middle of the round that seemed to be the most definitive punches of the stanza.” – Michael Nelson

“The first third of the round Marquez gets the better of it. Pacquiao forcefully bangs his gloves together once again. Midway through, a clash of heads and blood trickles from the right corner of Juan's eye. Blood seeps from his nose too. Pacquiao enlivened by the crimson, pours it on, ferociously attacking. Marquez responds in kind and they go toe to toe, tit for tat, with Pacquiao having slightly the better. Things settle and the round is still up for grabs. Neither seals it in the final seconds, though for me Pacquiao's work in the frenetic final minute puts the round in his column. Pacquiao is cut by the rounds end as well.” – Jeff Pryor

10-10 Even

“Each man had their moments in a round with some great exchanges. I felt like Marquez had the slightest of leads at the one minute mark, with Pac evening things up in the second third, with neither man separating themselves in the final minute. I watched it a second time, and still wasn't comfortable choosing a winner. Even on my card.” – Andrew Fruman

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Marquez, Duane Ford 10-9 Marquez, Jerry Roth 10-9 Marquez

"An amazingly even fight... and
the straight right hand by Marquez
hurts Pacquiao!" - Jim Lampley

10-9 Marquez

"Marquez beat Pacquiao up in this round.” – Lee Payton

“Marquez lands a right hand that results in a bad cut over Pacquiao right eye, then hurts Pacquaio with a left hook to the body shortly thereafter. Over the next two minutes, he lands several more right hands to close out a dominant round.” – Michael Nelson

10-8 Marquez

“The ABC scoring guidelines state that: No knockdowns, but a clear dominating winning of the round – 10-8.

I think this round qualifies. Marquez was dominant. He cut Pacquaio early, and proceeded to lay a steady hurting, landing several of the hardest punches we've seen so far in the fight. By far the most one sided 3 minutes by either man since the opening frame of the first fight.” – Andrew Fruman

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Marquez, Duane Ford 10-9 Marquez, Jerry Roth 10-9 Marquez

Totals after 8 rounds

Miller 76-75 Pacquiao, Ford 76-75 Pacquiao, Roth 76-75 Marquez

10-9 Pacquiao

“Another extremely close round. It could be called even, but Pacquiao's punches caused more damage. A big left hand opened a nasty gash over Marquez' right eye.” – Michael Nelson

“Unsurprisingly, Pacquiao comes out ruggedly determined to turn the tide and press things. For the first half of the round he makes it happen, landing several big shots over the course. Then Juan lands two big straight right hands, reopening Manny's cut. Pacquiao shotguns a straight left into Marquez's face, and then gets a little wild and they come together awkwardly. After a few heated exchanges where Pacquiao continues to slimly edge it, Marquez's face is smeared with blood again. The doctor takes a look. Marquez has a second cut on the same eye. Marquez comes out looking to reestablish himself, but it's just simply Manny's round. His shots are landing, and Juan's are coming up short. Manny, does a brief Ali shuffle as the bell sounds, underlining his solid bounce back round.” – Jeff Pryor

“This was another really close round, in which Pacquiao did just a little bit more. I said this in my comments on the first fight – but having the ½ point option which is now available to judges in some places would be nice for a round like this.” – Andrew Fruman

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Pacquiao, Duane Ford 10-9 Pacquiao, Jerry Roth 10-9 Marquez

"Another left hand rocks Marquez
and the blood begins to flow in his
right eye. Big round for Pacquiao
so far." - Jim Lampley

10-9 Pacquiao

“Pac staggers JMM with a weird, wide left hand that come out of nowhere. He followed up like a mad man with JMM on the ropes. Of course, Marquez sings right along with him and quiets things down with a nifty move that turns him off the ropes. Pac lands his own big counter punch in response to a missed right. JMM seems to be standing his ground more and is eating lefts for his bravery.” – Lee Payton

“In the first 15 seconds of the round Marquez gets aggressive and pays. Pacquiao lands a prequel to the punch that would end Hatton's night, a short right hand that he lands while slipping Juan's attack. It's a thing of brutal beauty and sends Juan staggering to the ropes. Manny shoots forward trying to capitalize, but Marquez dodges much of the attack, like a matador. He seems unfazed and is firing back, but nothing by either man really lands. The next two minutes, Marquez rights the ship and they fight on even terms. Both men are damn near indomitable. Manny, punctuates the round with a final blow and bags another stanza.” – Jeff Pryor

“After hurting Marquez with a left hand counter early in the round, Pac went on the offensive and had much the better of things for the first minute and a half – and then Marquez steadily worked his way back into the round, having most of the good moments over the final minute. After the rough start, he made it close, but not close enough to overcome the big early deficit.” – Andrew Fruman

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Pacquiao, Duane Ford 10-9 Pacquiao, Jerry Roth 10-9 Pacquiao

"You're not pressing him. You're not
pressing him. You're waiting. Come'on.
Press, press. There's only two more
rounds Juan..." - Nacho Beristain

"Blood is drama. We have blood,
we have drama." - Larry Merchant

10-9 Marquez

“I thought Marquez won it close but clear with a handful of solid punches upstairs and down. Manny was tamed for the most part.” – Lee Payton

“The first half of the round is an even affair. A punch by Juan strays minimally low, Manny takes the opportunity for a breather. He looks shop worn. Midway through, Marquez lands a string of straights that drive Pacquiao back to the ropes, asserting his lead in the round. It tightens up a little, as both men land effectively, but Pacquiao seems to be tired and isn't throwing as much. Very slight edge to Marquez. Lampley thinks Marquez may need a knockout to win, Marquez probably thinks the same thing himself these days.” – Jeff Pryor

10-10 Even

“Both guys had their moments, each landing a handful of clean punches in a very closely contested round. Neither one separated himself enough from the other to pick a winner on my card.” – John Vaci

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Marquez, Duane Ford 10-9 Marquez, Jerry Roth 10-9 Marquez

"I have the fight 6-5 for Marquez, which
means I have an even fight, because
of the knockdown by Pacquiao" - Larry Merchant

"Sometimes judges score blood, and
it's Marquez that has had blood running
down his face for the last three rounds
of the fight." - Jim Lampley


10-9 Marquez

“Marquez closed out the fight by having his way with Pacquiao tactically. He controlled the pace of the round and countered at will. Clear round for Juan Manuel.” – Lee Payton

“A clear round for Marquez, as he put together some of his best combinations of the fight. He seemingly out-landed Pacquiao 2 to 1.” – Michael Nelson

“The first minute, Marquez is just doing more. Much is being blocked, but some are getting through. Manny seems to be holding himself in reserve. Second minute, they trade. Marquez looks tired and off balance which is quite rare for him. Marquez lands a couple big rights over the last minute, but is more economical. Pacquiao is pressing, but largely ineffective. They both have minor rallies. Overall Marquez, takes the round.” – Jeff Pryor

10-9 Pacquiao

“Marquez had his moments, but I thought Manny landed enough straight lefts and outfought Marquez in close quarters to take it.” – John Vaci

Official Judge's Cards

Tom Miller 10-9 Marquez, Duane Ford 10-9 Pacquiao, Jerry Roth 10-9 Marquez

Final Scores

Official Cards

Tom Miller: 114-113 Pacquiao
Duane Ford: 115-112 Pacquiao
Jerry Roth: 115-112 Marquez

The Boxing Bulletin Cards

Lee Payton: 114-114 Draw
Michael Nelson: 114-113 Pacquiao
Jeff Pryor: 114-113 Marquez
John Vaci: 115-113 Pacquiao
Andrew Fruman: 114-113 Marquez

The Boxing Bulletin Official Scorecard

R1: Pacquiao
R2: Marquez
R3: Pacquiao (10-8)
R4: Pacquiao
R5: Marquez
R6: Marquez
R7: Pacquiao
R8: Marquez
R9: Pacquiao
R10: Pacquiao
R11: Marquez
R12: Marquez

Overall, we scored the bout 6-6, which comes out to 114-113 Pacquiao with the knockdown.

However, we were deadlocked 2-2-1, with two scorers favoring Pacquaio, two going with Marquez and one even card.

Marquez swept 4 rounds on our cards (2, 5, 6, 8) as well as taking a 4/5ths share in rounds 11 and 12, while Pacquiao had the unanimous edge on 3 cards (3, 9 & 10) and a 4/5ths share of rounds 4 and 7.

In 11 of the 12 rounds, at least 4 of us had the same score.

Notable differences to the official cards:

All 3 official judges gave Marquez round 7, while 4 of the 5 Boxing Bulletin judges scored the round for Pacquiao.

All 5 Boxing Bulletin judges gave round 6 to Marquez, while 2 of the 3 official judges scored the round for Pacquiao.

Please join us again next month when we give the round by round scorecard treatment to another controversial fight from the past.

Previous Editions of Score it!

Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez I

Nigel Benn vs Chris Eubank II

Larry Holmes vs Tim Witherspoon

Erik Morales vs Marco Antonio Barrera I

Sugar Ray Leonard vs Marvin Hagler

3 comments:

Gareth said...

Good work guys!

The fact that even after watching it a countless number of times a year after the event still nobody can make a clear decision on who won is testiment to just how close this, and the first fight was, I myself have had it a very close Marquez win the last few times I've watched it but I think a lot of it comes down to which style you prefer.

An idea for future fights, and I know there are hundreds to chose from, would be De la Hoya vs Mosley I & II, I have Shane winning them both but countless old people in pubs always preach to me about how Oscar was jobbed, I dont see it myself. B-Hop/Taylor are also fights that spark heated debates.

dread said...

Perhaps you can give yer readers a head's up as to what fight you are going to be doing so we can watch it beforehand

And, is there a link to this anywhere someone might PM me? My tapes are a mess.

If so, I'll be back

Mark said...

I had Pac by a pt here & JMM by 3 in the first fight. Very tough fights to score